A Chat with Dr. Treyvaud

On a recent sunny Saturday afternoon, I had the pleasure of sitting down for a chat with Dr. Stphane Treyvaud about his upcoming lecture series at Creating Space Yoga. Dr. Treyvaud is an Oakville-based psychiatrist who treats adults in a private practice, but also runs a Stress Reduction Clinic that teaches Mindfulness Meditation to reduce stress, manage chronic pain, and help prevent disease. He gave a series of well-attended lectures last year at CSY and has returned to do another four lectures this term on other aspects of the practice of meditation.

Dr. Treyvaud was born and raised in Switzerland, but came to Canada in 1983 to finish his psychiatric training at the University of Toronto. He had an interest in studying a more integrated type of psychiatric medicine, one which encompassed both mind and body, and U of Ts program was broad and interesting. In 1986, he began a 2-year fellowship in child psychiatry at U of T, and then went into private practice in 1988. Dr. Treyvaud is multilingual and speaks French, Italian, German and English, and has also studied Latin and ancient Greek quite extensively.

CS: Can you speak a little bit about the first lecture (Sat Oct 1), which explores the idea of wisdom and ways we can see ourselves truthfully.

ST: This is a complex issue we are unavoidably biased by our conditioning (cultural, personal historical, genetic). We are always seeing things subjectively. However, there are some universals, things that are universally human we all have a brain and a body with the same basic structures there are some universal ways that we meet life that were going to share. There are some universal truths that we know from experience, and if we heed them, life is going to be worthwhile, meaningful; if we dont, life is going to be full of misery and suffering. When I talk about seeing things the way they really are it is the ability to see the way things are distorted by our conditioning, to see through that; and to be able to share with each other the universal truths that make life worthwhile. Here is a simple example: If I scare you, you will not be relaxed, the whole body and mind goes to tension. (When) your whole body is in tension, you will start to distort things that is a truth that is universal all over the world, for you here in Canada, for a pygmy in the jungle etc. so that is a universal truth if we want to see things in a clear way, we must be relaxed, must not be afraid. We need to be able to relinquish the defensiveness that prevents us from penetrating reality in a deep way so thats an example of how we learn to actually see what is universally human.

CS: How will these lectures be different from the series you did in the Spring?

ST: (Laughs) Sometimes I tell my long term meditation students that really, Im always talking about the same thing, but using different ways of saying it in order to keep them coming ..people have a big laugh. There are some very simple principles (in studying mindfulness meditation), and its always about the same thing, however its so simple we dont see it, we forget it. We get lost in our complicatedness. But yes, it will be different.

There is (an Indian parable about) an elephant of truth. You have several blind men who come to this elephant and each man describes the elephant of truth. One man touches the trunk and says, oh, the truth is like a long snake. Another blind man gets to the ear of the elephant, and he says, no, no, no, the truth is like a cabbage, and the other blind man ends up getting to the tail of the elephant, and he says no, no, no, the truth is like a brush. So the trick is to learn the kind of mindful awareness that allows us to see beyond our limitations, to perceive the whole elephant of truth. When I give lectures, its always about the elephant of truth, but we get at it from different points of view, and each point of view highlights a different principle that can get in the way of us seeing it.

CS: Do people need any background in meditation to come to the lectures?

ST: No, no, no, they dont need any background at all. Thats what these public lectures are all about Im not assuming they are committed to meditation they might be simply curious, and many people may have never done it (meditation) they are just curious about it and want to see what this is all about. Those who want to pursue it will take the courses I run. I see this (lectures at CSY) as a way to raise awareness in the general public so people may feel invited to realize that deepening ones awareness is a healing thing, a good thing in life, and they may be inspired to take steps to pursue that more. So thats how I view my audience.

Its not only the content of what I teach, not just about giving information, like a math class. Its also the fact that I am embodying that attitude people will have an experience of themselves with a teacher (who embodies mindfulness). I touch people not just with the content, the words, but all the non-verbal aspects of embodying mindfulness and the way that that energy manifests itself as living truth.

CS: What is the format of these lectures? Will it be the same as in previous lectures with a short meditation/relaxation at the beginning, a lecture, and then a question period?

ST: Yes. I was thinking of doing it similarly, perhaps with less demarcation. Perhaps with a little meditation practice after a certain amount of lecture, I havent nailed it down yet.

CS: I really love the part where people ask you questions. They have such interesting questions; at the last lectures, you could tell that the people with questions had been through something and they were trying to deal with it, and they were putting something out to you. And I think you do very well with the one-on-one. I feel like youre inspired by the questions, so theres this lovely energy around that interaction. I think you like it.

ST: Yes, yes, its my preferred part. Because thats the part where I feel I really teach, where I really can help people move. Its when they ask the question. I help them, even more so in my meditation courses but still, (its through the questions) that I feel I can really help.

CS: You really welcome questions.

ST: Yes.

CS: May I ask you about your meditation practice? How did you come to it, and how often you meditate, etc.?

ST: Yes, of course. Students ask me about this often, motivated by a view of the teacher as a special person who has it all figured out, so they can figure out how to get to that point but I tend to start with the statement: My journey is exactly like yours, there is no shred of difference. Yes, Ive had my unique story of how I got to it, but everybody does. The years and years of struggle, not practicing, falling off the wagon, coming back to it, getting into defenses, throwing it all out, coming back to it, back and forth, and finally one day coming back to it and it really sticks. Thats my story like everybody elses story. Thats the foundation.

Theres my particular story of how I got to discover that. I was almost a professional violin player when I was young. At one point I wasnt sure whether I was going to have a career in music or medicine. I was playing very intensely and very well, giving concerts etc.. By the time I was 16, I had developed a strong stage fright. Before one of the concerts I was supposed to give, several weeks before, I had a rehearsal and it was absolutely catastrophic. So my violin teacher at the time, she said, okay, I want you to start to do certain things she put me on what was for me a completely incomprehensible program of doing nothing else but like this with my violin [he demonstrates by dramatically drawing an imaginary violin bow down on an exhalation with a loud haaaaa). I did that for two hours a day! And I was only allowed to do that not allowed to play the piece. I had no idea what she was doing.

She would check up on me twice a week. And when it came close to the concert I would do it for her, and she would say, No, no, no youre not centered, let go. Dont do anything, let IT happen. Centre yourself in your pelvis. And slowly I started to discover that notion of non-doing. Of centering down in the heart, into the earth. A few days before the concert, after not having played that piece at all for weeks, we had a rehearsal, and she said, just play it. And it went absolutely brilliantly. I knew the piece already. It was about allowing the wisdom of my body to take over.

After the concert, she said Id like you to meet somebody.it was Karlfried Graf Durckheim, the first westerner who brought Zen to the west. He was a Zen master in the Black Forest, not far from where I lived, and during all the many years I worked with my violin teacher, I did not know that she had been his student for decades! thats how I got to meet Karlfried Graf Durckheim, and when I was 17, I began my training in Zen meditation. I trained with him and then I got busy and I got caught up in the monkey mind (busyness and distraction) and then I lost it and I came back and I lost it and I came back and over time, slowly, as I went through life, shit happens and all these kind of things, you struggle and come back and eventually came the moment when that kind of work became a way of life. Thats how it works.

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Searching Everywhere But Where It Counts

Forgetting that we have a mind.

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Before you worry about symptoms such as depression and anxiety and how to improve or get rid of them, before you get your blood boiling arguing with people who can't deal with anything beyond their own viewpoint, before you develop and become ensconced in your own opinions, before you vilify who disagrees with you, before you shake your head wondering how seemingly obvious facts cannot be agreed upon, before you assume you have no blind spots, before you despair that crowds never learn from history, before you become bitter at humanity's collective stupidity, before you get passionate about religion, mythology, and archetypes, before all that, wouldn't it make sense to inquire into the source of all of it - these symptoms, views, opinions, thoughts, actions, distortions and, frankly, miseries?

While it does not take rocket science to realize that the source of it all is the embodied human mind, for most, embarking on its exploration is at best a big challenge, at worst insurmountable, non-sensical or incomprehensible. How many times have you heard nonsense like “I don’t believe in psychology”, as if the existence of the moon were a matter of belief? How often do patients enter their physician’s office complaining of being anxious or depressed, and are sent home with a prescription without one question that would try to understand how their mind creates such suffering? Many people, including professionals who should know better, live and act as if they had no mind.

The mind is the source of all subjective phenomena and experiences, and we are astoundingly unaware of it. Our mind’s task is to ensure survival and the propagation of our species, not to ensure we live our best life. To this end, it needs to be efficient, rather than concerned about maximizing its potential. Efficiency results by pairing down information processing to the bare minimum. Embedded in the way mind functions are mechanisms that cause reality distortions, delusions, wild beliefs, and a profound obliviousness of one’s own ignorance. Whether we like it or not, our mind drives our lives like our heart pumps blood through our veins. The universe's natural processes have caused us to evolve that way, and for better or worse, we are stuck with a mind that functions sub-optimally as it creates profound reality distortions that seem at first blush to have successfully allowed us to multiply and propagate towards earth dominance. In the long run, however, it turns out that humanity may end up stampeding dangerously close to extinction. To thrive both individually and as a species we must come to terms with our rather dangerous mind and train ourselves to use it beyond its basic survival mode by accessing its inherent potential evolution has graciously also built into it. That takes work, training, effort and patience.

Our human mind provides the capacity for reflection. The mirror reflects what’s in front of it, meaning that as reality beams itself onto the mirror’s surface, the mirror beams it back to us as an image we can then examine from the outside. Notice how what gets examined by looking at the mirror is not reality itself, but an image of it. Our brain provides a similar process in the form of consciousness, whereby it maps reality in a virtual form we then can observe and manipulate. However, while the mirror reflects reality exactly as it is, the virtual reality consciousness creates is not only a map of reality, but that map is modified into a new creation. The brain as mapper functions as our central relationship organ that enables us to reflexively develop a relationship to reality and ourselves by having access to a virtual, mapped and modified reality we can ponder and manipulate. This is how we are self-aware.

As an aside, the mind is more than the creator of a virtual adaptation of reality we can reflexively relate to and have a relationship with. It can transcend self-awareness, and knowingly experience reality and awareness without the detour of mapped mirroring duality. That is the shift from observation to being, from knowing we exist in a universe to realizing we are the universe. More about that in another context.

The eye has a blind spot where the optic nerve enters the retina, but you don’t see it. You have the impression of enjoying a seamless field of vision without two black holes in the middle, even though the holes are there. The brain manages to fill in the missing information to make the field seem seamless. Extrapolate that to the whole brain to realize that to function effectively for everyday survival our brain adapts our field of consciousness in two ways: It fills what’s missing to provide a sense of continuity and simplifies available information to not overwhelm you. It hides blind spots from you to provide continuity and withholds information to ensure efficiency. Both these mechanisms distort reality to ensure survival, while simultaneously laying the foundations for ignorance and suffering.

We each have many blind spots, but the core blind spot affecting us all is the proclivity to live as if we had no mind. We use our minds without realizing the extent to which our experience of reality is created by our mind. Without our conscious knowledge our brain creates the reality we experience. We don’t notice that the reality we experience is our brain’s creation. We mistake our brain’s constructions for reality. This results in a dangerous situation, in which we ignore the fact that our experience is subjectively constructed. We mistakenly believe that what we see and experience is automatically true, and because it seems true it seems real, and because it seems real it cannot be changed. Our primordial blind spot towards the brain’s constructions robs us of freedom of choice, of the power of clear view, wise discernment, and respectfully compassionate mutual understanding.

Our mind’s constructions seem so real that we hold on to them for dear life and want to shove them down other people’s throats without exploring their veracity. We get strongly identified with what we believe we know, emotions take over, and the capacity to hear each other vanishes. Identification with mind processes is the single most destructive problem in the way humans use their minds. Emotions suffocate the mind’s spaciousness to freely consider, question, doubt and explore, and before we know it, we are in conflict. If we cannot agree on facts, emotions drive us to use force to impose our views instead of inquiring more deeply into the divergent realities, and if necessary, compromising to try to resolve complexities. Force can take the form of yelling and screaming at each other, or legal and physical action.

The reality our mind constructs and we can have a relationship with, is in fact threefold. We first have objective reality, which is what happens in the universe independent of whether we know about it or there is anyone around to witness it. This reality consists of energy flow that is independent of how our brains and minds construct reality, and therefore as far from information as energy flow can get. The black death virus killed thousands of people without them knowing what viruses are or being able to see them. Although this is the easiest reality to agree upon, like in the case of flat-earthers, emotions still manage to cause distortions of objective facts.

Subjective reality is our own private experience nobody else has access to. This energy flow is entirely within as a construction by our own brain and mind. Although it is largely independent of objective reality, it is profoundly shaped by interactions with others. Even if everyone denies that I am in pain, if I experience pain, it is totally real for me. That is a difficult reality to agree upon, because seeing it from the outside requires trust and our capacity for empathy.

Then there is intersubjective reality, which is the reality of stories. This energy flow is deeply symbolic in the sense that language and stories are symbolic, therefore experienced as information flow, and a mutual co-creation with others. It is the reality that emerges through mutual narrative construction and is neither objective, nor subjective. It only exists in the interpersonal realm containing people who are willing to participate in it by accepting the shared reality. One such reality is money, but there are many others such as all collective ideas we can share. Money means nothing and has no reality unless it is shared in the interpersonal space. This is also a difficult reality to deal with, because it depends on the mutual capacity to regulate the multilayered energy flow between our intuition, our emotions and our intellect. When that occurs, empathy and clear insight become possible, allowing a degree of harmony within the intersubjective dance of energy and information flow to emerge. Any dance couple may dance a Tango, but those in conflict will not be able to present a harmonious dance.

To manage these three realities we each have a relationship with, requires a good deal of self-awareness and emotional regulation many people don’t have. Much of the time, the mind remains transparent like air to our eyes, invisible or not known, yet profoundly determining how we relate to real reality and live our lives. Like children playing in a house on fire, we remain oblivious to the many ways our ignorance of mind causes suffering and destruction all around.      

Copyright © 2024 by Dr. Stéphane Treyvaud. All rights reserved.

Important Changes to the Mindsight Intensive Program 2024-25

Important changes to the Mindsight Intensive program 2024-25

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October 1, 2024

1. Administrative introduction:

In order to accommodate divergent needs of individual students in the group, I am considering modifications in the group's process. After the first 10 weeks of the fall trimester, during which we lay foundations together as one group, we might explore the possibility of giving students the opportunity to continue through the winter and spring in one of two separate streams of their choice depending on their perceived needs. The decision to continue as one group or split into two will organically emerge from a process of discussion within the whole group when the time comes.

Here are the two streams:

  • There are those who primarily feel the need to develop and consolidate the scaffolding of meditative technique as their main objective.
  • Others feel generally quite confident in their mastery of meditative technique, and are therefore more focused on exploring the psychodynamic, socio-political, existential and spiritual implications of embodying the daily meditative attitude their mastery of technique affords. This includes the expansion of awareness into the modes of nothingness and emptiness.

These two interest streams are paradoxically both complementary and potentially conflicting. On one hand, mindfulness practice invites the student to cultivate beginner’s mind in a non-striving, non-hierarchical fashion. On the other hand, there is a sequential evolution of skill in one’s ability to apply meditative techniques, much like when one learns to play an instrument, creating a hierarchy of skills and stages the meditator walks through over time. Mixing students from both streams in one group is important as it allows for mutual fertilization of experience, expertise and wisdom. By the same token, this differentiation of needs sometimes requires different teaching approaches and emphases in the material that is taught. Naturally, I always endeavor to navigate those two streams within the group as a whole in a way that allows for integration of the two.

2. Long-term commitment:

Students who are interested in the Mindsight Intensive already have mindfulness experience. Therefore, they are all familiar with how challenging it is to embody mindfulness as a way of life. It is therefore assumed that everyone signing up seeks immersion into the hard work required to meet defenses and avoidances head on that can sometimes arise during practice. This can only be achieved through the long-term effort that facing our mind’s complexity deserves and demands. The program is thus structured to run through a whole academic year of thirty sessions, and students with different, more short-term needs who might want to leave after a trimester or two should not join. The work’s intensity requires group cohesion and safety, as well as a shared sense that we can count on each other to work through tough challenges and moments together.

3. Session structure:

Every session will have the following elements:

  • A meditation guided by me of at least 1/2 hour.
  • Time for processing individual students’ journey through the trials and tribulations of their practice. This is the difficult part, because it requires from each student to honestly take on and address difficulties, defenses and avoidances that may arise during their practice and their daily lives. Ignoring these challenges invariably causes the journey to falter and shrivel back into the automaticity of the monkey mind.
  • Theoretical considerations necessary to make sense of our mind explorations presented by me, and sometimes elaborated through group exercises and processing.

4. Immersion at home:

  • In every session I will suggest homework. By diligently following and practicing the homework, the student can enter a path of transformation that will automatically and effortlessly unfold.
  • Before starting the program, please make sure to rearrange your schedule so that you can dedicate around an hour/day to formal mindfulness meditation practice. This may vary at times depending on both external circumstances and internal mental states, but aiming for that amount of time will ensure rewiring and transformation. Although formal practice time can occasionally be broken up throughout the day, what ensures penetration of depth (see my blog ‘Depth in Mindfulness’) is the long uninterrupted stretch of time that inevitably causes deeper conditionings and unconscious forces to emerge into the light of awareness.
  • Throughout the duration of the program, students can request ad hoc individual sessions, should they feel that the available group time has not provided the opportunity to address important issues that arise. For this to be covered by OHIP, you must have been seen by me in consultation through your family physician’s referral within the last two years. If you are not a regular patient of mine, ask Reena whether you must first get your doctor’s referral to see me or not.

Copyright © 2024 by Dr. Stéphane Treyvaud. All rights reserved.

The Basic Human Right to Stupidity

Silence and stupidity are the foundations of mental health.

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October 1, 2024

As biological beings we function in analog mode, shifting from one physical and mental state to another, using intelligence to solve problems and consciousness to guide our intuition to make the best possible choices. In contrast to intelligence, which we also find in AI (artificial intelligence), consciousness involves both feelings and the capacity to self-reflect, resulting in the ability to resist reality and by extension suffer. Our biological organism functions naturally as a continuous energy and information flow changing with time through an infinite number of states (like the grandfather clock that shows the whole flow of time), while AI is digital, based only on two discreet states, 0 and 1, from which it organizes information (like your digital watch that only shows the exact time it is now). AI as an information processing system is completely alien to our organic nature. AI is an algorithm that like a table has no feelings and never sleeps, never needs a rest, never feels anything, and is incapable of ethical consideration (if it seems to have ethical reflections it is because it has been programmed to imitate ethical views, not because it feels anything). In social media it is programmed to make money by eliciting user engagement through emphasis on information that activates feelings in human beings, such as anger, awe, attraction, joy etc. The AI algorithm just chugs along as a soulless, emotionless information process like robots or zombies if you prefer the world of fantasy.

Humans, in turn, need rest, sleep, and the cultivation of various mental states through play, intimacy, physical activity, problem-solving, daydreaming and meditation. Within that richness of mental states lies creativity, and at the core of creativity is silence and stupidity. The cultivation of silence, and by extension unknowing, is paramount for the discovery of contexts within which all knowing is embedded. Stupidity relates to the fact that a majority of thoughts we have are crazy, non-sensical, false, deluded, unintelligible, and mysterious. Like a tree spreading millions of seeds, only a few of which will thrive into a new tree, our mind spews out millions of thoughts and fantasies, only a few of which are reflective of truth and conducive to living the good life. Nevertheless, that prolific productivity is the bedrock of creativity and requires skillful management. If we want to be healthy, we need to create a safe, private space for those thoughts to live, evolve, and be processed within the entirety of the mind. That space is the silence of contemplation and the safety of intimacy. Under the incessant barrage of the AI algorithm through social media we have been robbed of such a space, because we are swept away into the algorithmic stream of likes, dislikes, approvals, disapprovals, comparisons, competitions etc. The energy of stupidity then, is used to feed our narcissistic nature and flow unchecked into the public domain of the internet, with really nefarious results.

We are far from having developed the full potential of mind. More often than not we succumb to our internal algorithm of conditioned reflexes, behaviors, reactions and mindless activities that cause untold suffering. If mind has a choice between easy and difficult, it will always choose easy. Easy is what can be manipulated in the concrete world; it is easier to control the body and fast, for example, than to practice mind concentration. We have a certain command over the body and the external world, but not over our mind. Faced with the challenge of mind exploration, we must engage in a rigorous mind training and learn to observe it without judgment.

Most importantly, non-judgmental inquiry requires the privacy of our own intimate space with ourselves and a few chosen people we trust, where stupidity can have full latitude of manifestation. Caring for stupidity requires free private and intimate time, which should be a basic human right. Stupidity and silence are gold mines guaranteeing mental integration and expansion of awareness towards larger contexts. Once we have incorporated such mind hygiene into our lives, we are better equipped to meet the demands and responsibilities of reality, including social reality, and wisely chose what we responsibly allow into the public domain. The non-judgmental attitude of intimate and private investigation needs to give way to the discerning attitude of social manifestation and public expression. In the public domain it has catastrophic social consequences if anything goes and the first thought that enters one's mind is spewed out. Social authenticity in the public domain has nothing to do with spontaneously spewing out whatever stupidities and unformed thoughts fly through one’s mind. It is rather based on one’s capacity to cogently and responsibly express what is relevant to the demands of any life situation after having sifted through the chaos of one's thoughts. In that sense, opinions must be carefully crafted if we want a society that functions wisely.

This dialectic between internal freedom for stupidity and silence and external responsibility for wisdom and perspective requires a difficult ingredient – the capacity to face the truth. Information and truth are not the same, and most information is not truth. We are flooded daily with plenty of information, but truth is a rare and costly kind of information integration process that requires hard work and time to be discovered. Truth is costly because it demands research and investment. Fiction and fantasy (not as literary genres) are cheap and don't require any investment; they can be made as attractive as you would like them to be. They are simplistic, deluded and disconnected from reality. Truth on the other hand is complicated and complex, often painful and unattractive, and the hallmark of our mind’s connection with reality.

Copyright © 2024 by Dr. Stéphane Treyvaud. All rights reserved.

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